rockypointexposed.com
Please go to the website www.rockypointexposed.com for information regarding current real estate issues in Rocky Point. After visiting the site, feel free to post comments on this blog. Just click on the “(xx) Comments” button below to view or post your comment.
January 27th, 2008 at 1:14 am
I am one of the early investors in the North Beach properties. The lies I was told are unbelievable. It seems to me that it is no coincidence that shortly after I bought at Las Gardenias, a lawsuit came up, and more recently, right after lots of dollars were invested in Azul and Riviera Real, another lawsuit was started.
January 27th, 2008 at 2:44 am
I am a victim of the Riviera Real project. It can happen to any US investor purchasing in Mexico. I encourage all future investors and visitors of Rocky Point to stay away. Until the Mexican government feels the pain in the pocketbook only then will they regulate the lawsuits and development fraud happening today. I may never see my life savings returned to me, but I will continue to encourage and educate those around me to stay away from Mexico. I do not want anyone else to experience the stress and pain my family has experienced through the process of purchasing Riviera Real. They will tell you it is safe, they will tell you they have “deep pockets”, they will tell you “you are protected.” The truth is you are not. They can do whatever they want once they have your money.
January 27th, 2008 at 8:39 pm
The information on this website is refreshing and accurate.
I too was an early investor in NorthBeach. I have asked for the help of Puerto Penasco realtors and agencies in both the US and Mexican Governments to help resolve title (no title) issues.
Now Rocky Point can pay the price for the realtors and governments ignoring pleas. You can bet this website will have a major impact for Puerto Penasco!
I would also like to caution people about “Bank Trusts” Bank Trust fees are anywhere from $5,000.00USD +on most properties. They need to be renewed every year after the 2nd year. Bank Trusts are controlled by Mexican banks that are controlled by a corrupt Mexican government…..Need I say more?
January 28th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
We invested in NorthBeach in 2000. We were prmised a beautiful development as stated in the web site and as you can see we have nothing.
If you invest in Mexico, don’t plan on any help from the US or Mexican governments if you have problems.
The Mexican department of tourism promotes Mexico and the US government should offer protection under the NAFTA trade agreement when the property is in the “free zone” (which includes Rocky Point) Your elected and appointed officials will put out no effort to resolve the issues.
NorthBeach principal land owners are greedy people that are involved in orgainzed fraud.
The the Mexican government wants to see Puerto Penasco develop to its potential, they need to take these thieves to court and lock them up so they won’t be stealing from anyone else.
Ripped off in Rocky Point
January 28th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
I enjoyed your information about real estate in Rocky Point.
One area that could have been addressed is the problem that tourists and potential real estate investors encounter when they read local newspapers and/or sales brochures providing information about Rocky Point.
Much of the information is absolutely stretched truth or down right lies. Many papers live off advertising dollars that businesses and developers pay and could care less what information they print as long as it is positive, positive, positive.
A recent article in the Rocky Point Times written by Kent White painted a pretty picture about real estate investing in Mexico and the problems encountered at NorthBeach. While some of the article is informative, he expressed opinions about NorthBeach without having a clue what has taken place & the continuing saga. Of course, the Rocky Point Times printed the article without investigating the facts.
As recent as the January 2008 issue of the Rocky Point Times, an article (Facts about NorthBeach) was written by attorney Raul OFarrill and again printed without investigation. It contained blatent lies about NorthBeach in an effort to cover up very serious real estate problems. The article was left unsigned which gives the paper little credibility and the article no foundation.
The real estate community in Rocky Point, the local newspaper and advertising agencies have swept problems under the rug for years and still are doing so in order to make a buck. There are too many unfortunate investors making waves to clean up the mess that these people have created. It is time for the Rocky Point to change and begin operating honestly.
January 28th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
I applaud you for putting a web site together that is informative as well as addressing fraud at North Beach.
I made vast amounts of money in the US by investing in real esate over a period of 35 years and continue to make money on it today. I lost vast amounts of money ininvesting in Mexico real estate.
Un-licensed sales agents came to the US to put on sales seminars and pick up deposits for property in Mexico. These individuals, in most cases are required to contact the individual State Real Estate Commission to get permission to market in a particular state.
That didn’t happen. Today there is a licensing requirement for realtors but no governing agency to control them. If you need help with your investment after the sale, who are you going to turn to? From my experience, there is no one!
You will be told that you can invest in a property and rent it to make the payment. Properties that are not directly on the beach will not rent until all beachfront property is rented. Beach front properties rent approx 30-40% of the time. Remember that you still have on going expenses such as association fees, management fees, insurance, taxes, bank trust fees, maintenance, utilities ect.
Areas like Sandy Beach are so over built that there were over 2000 re-sale properties at one time and are permanent billboards advertising re-sales. This has a major impact on property values. From my experiences, I would recommend the following:
1.Never do a 2nd mortgage on your primary residence to invest in Mexico. 2.Never pay money to developers offering special “pre-construction” pricing as there is no guarantee that the project will be completed.
3.Never listen to a sales agent who tells you the project is nearly sold out and you need to act quickly
4. Never buy until you see a completed unit and know there are no liens or title problems on the property
5. After you purchase, be willing to tolerate the problems encountered at the border crossing, corruption in the police department, lack of infrastucture to include but not limited to water and sewer.
6. BEST ADVICE: DON’T INVEST IN MEXICO. A BAD INVESTMENT IN THE US IS BETTER THAN A GOOD INVESTMENT IN MEXICO.
Keep paying your US taxes so you can help support all the illegals get across the border!
Sign me: Seeing the Light!
January 29th, 2008 at 12:03 am
My family invested in NorthBeach in early 2000. Because some of the blogs have mentioned owners, I will give you some information to let you know how all of the corruption at NorthBeach occured.
The Palacios and Grajalvas are Mexican nationals who teamed up with Juan Luis Martin Senior and Junior (from Spain). The Martins were supposedly individuals that had experience in marketing and developing land. The experiences they had were dealings in Cobo San Lucus where Juan Luis Martin Senior and family members were arrested and accused of land fraud in the mid 1990’s. It is my understanding that they were not to re-enter Mexico after the conviction so they live and operate out of San Diego.but are known to move around to Florida and parts of Europe. From information that has been compiled, it appears that the Martins operate under phoney corporations and in some cases may have fictitous names on documents with forged signatures. The most recent law suit filed by the Grajalvas naming the Martins and Palacios and other investors as defendants, was filed because the Martins were not paying the Grajalvas their fair share for land sales at NorthBeach.
The NorthBeach problems were brought to the attention of the real estate community in Rocky Point and some of those same real estate agents have continued to market and sell NorthBeach property. Originally when it was brought to the real estate community’s attention, there was about 2 and 1/2 million dollars invested. Today there are nearly 300 investors with up to 50 million invested. The most recent law suit has ceased all activities at NorthBeach. The suit has asked that all sales contracts become null and void,
A group of investors have contaced the real esate community in Rocky Point, all agencies of the Mexican and US governments with very little acion to remedy the NorthBeach fiasco. The media has now become involved to warn potential investors about the problems with investing and owning property in Mexico.
It is my intention to do whatever is necessary to alert the public about the extreme risk involved in investments in Mexico There is absolutely no secuity to protect your investment and your chances are extremely high that you will lose your money. There is no money to be made in Mexico.
North Beach Investor
January 31st, 2008 at 6:25 pm
Our family bought a lot in Vencinos de Playa Dorado in 1992, received a lease agreement with the promise of a bank trust, and built a garage condo complex in l996. This was done with the notary (lawyer in Rocky Point) with the signatures of the land owners and it was surveyed and registered in Rocky Point. We were threatened with getting our house bulldozed down and the catapillar was running and two men were sneering at my wife and I for over an hour which scared the hell out of us. For some reason, the threatening letter came with a North Beach letterhead. Everyone on our beach got the letter at that time. I attended Hoa meetings and the word was ,,,we needed title insurance…..We received insurance from 1st American Title…..Our first problem we noticed was that our size of the lot changed from 20 by 30 meter lots to 20 by 25….We now had an encroachment (written in the policy) on the development property behind us…Our garage condo ,,,,which was built with a survey by the builder and a permit from the city, was now on the developers property….The developer said to get it back, we had to join his Hoa which doesn’t exist (to date) and abide by the rules of the developement. The development said the beach eroded ,,,therefore we lost property on the dune side of our house. You would think if the beach eroded,,,property is lost on the beach side. The development has volunteered to take our walls down…and I guess my wall and part of my garage…..Ironically, we never bought our property from the developer…..why is he telling us what to do….
We were there Many years before they showed up and built on the property, 20 by 30 meters notarized in our purchase agreement.
Also, another important point is that you need to gain control of your federal zone property (the 20 meters between you and the oceans high tide line) It has a title for whomever wants to own it…If a development company or some other individual wants to claim it,,,,and you don’t,,,,they can apply and build on it and then you are now 2nd tier with some building in your view…Someone in town told us that the old Plaza Los Glorias Hotel is built on a federal zone concession. The development company behind us wants the control of the title….We have 1st rights to it, according to our attorney, and we have applied… We certainly don’t want a developer, who’s treated us as he has, to gain control in front of us. We used to respect him and thought he walked on water,,,but after all the threats and actions taken by him and his lawyer, made it a nightmare. It has even taken a toll on friendships. Because I complained about the five meters,(16 feet by 20 meters—about $70,000 dollars worth) we have been called names and ostracized. We now can’t get a loan or sell the property because of the encroachmnent which includes all forty lots in section 20….
Lastly, the different survey in our banktrust says we own about 8 feet of our neighbors house. There were no stakes placed on our property. It doesn’t look like an accurate survey to us. The developer maintains that he had nothing to do with it and never knew what was in the trusts issued, which were never translated in English,(even after a translater offered) We were told we had to sign within days or hours or the offer was not going to be available.
These comments to this site are for future use to prospective buyers as follows:
1.Rocky Point is a fabulous, beautiful place for investment if check points are in place….There needs to be a office, website, files, etc. for us to evaluate the investment, developer, permits, lien clearances, land ownership, title to property, all about banktrusts, federal zone implications, FM3s, status of realitors and lawyers.
2. Mexico is not totally to blame,,,,this has happened rapidly….
3. Please take our comments and experience and use them according to
Mexico law,,,,it’s different,,,we knew nothing about all the above.
4. Stay together as a group,,,get a lawyer,,,,hopefully one that, if he is
doing your banktrust and he knows about a discrepancy in
property boundaries, in the trust before it is issued, would consult his
clients before allowing it to be signed.
February 1st, 2008 at 3:32 am
Fellow Americans
I feel your pain and your disgust! You are not alone in your fight against a corrupt Mexican system.
We too have felt the wrath of being an American Investor in a beach community in the State of Sonora. El Golfo de Santa Clara is the next bombshell to explode for the Sonoran govt!
The rampant fraud and disregard for the Mexican Constitution and the Sonoran Constitution by the state and local authorities is alarming to say the least.
Our situation is a little different in El Golfo. We have good title. WHat we don’t have is permission by some local terrorists to go on our land! Although the Mexican Supreme Court riled against them in 1998 they still claim it belongs to them. They have molotav cocktails and machetes at their disposal, they have complete immunity from prosecution because like the sub-attorney general for the State of Sonora proudly stated, “Your problem is not a legal one, it is a social problem, and we, do NOT fix social problems!”
It has taken us over two and a half years to arrive at this juncture in our fight. We finally got the Bours gov’t to allow our criminal complaint to proceed only to have the kind judge dismiss it because “according to his ruling, “No crime was committed because we were not in possession!” He never bothered to watch the video (posted on you-tube) clearing showing these criminals force-ably throwing our 33′ trailer off our land! He didn’t take into consideration my photos showing over 150 meters of block wall construction he didn’t even bother to consider the receipts form the municipal water company showing not only that we were the legal owners but that we were there for several months before being thrown off our land.
The appeals court reversed the lower court ruling and issued arrest warrants for seven of these terrorists only to have the the commandante of the judicial police inform us that he could not execute the warrants because he needed special permission from Hermosillo. The executive branch is clearly in control of this case and will not let it proceed. Property values have sky rocketed in El Golfo since the announcement of the new coastal highway.
I have fought, begged, pleaded with every agency in San Luis RC, Caborca, and Hermosillo including the Attorney Generals office and the Governor’s office, his special envoy’s (joke) and his worthless (well he’s a good liar) representative in Phoenix for help in getting police protection or at the very least allowing the courts to hear my case and execute the arrest warrants. $187,000 later (legal fees, travel expenses, helping Mexican officials pay for their kids tuition etc…) we still are licking our chops and looking from the outside as they continue to build on our property.
Title insurance is worthless in Mexico unless there is a blatant fraud in the chain of title. Do not believe that Mexican title Insurance is your friend! It is a marketing gimmick to lure you to buy a NIGHTMARE. As we all can attest, Mexican laws do NOT protect American Investors. Maybe this can only be applied to Sonora, so I take that back Sonora Real Estate is NOT for the American Investor with LIMITED resources (maybe for Donald Trump).
Those of you considering purchasing land in Sonora (I was going to say Mexico) read the Mexican Title Insurance Policy fine and big print very carefully; it doesn’t cover jack! It is not comparable to what we have here in the states.
The American dream CANNOT be purchased in Mexico (Sonora).
They like using the catch phrase in Mexico, “don’t leave your brains at the border” because they claim Mexican real estate is a safe investment. There is NO amount of due diligence you can use if the political machine will not allow the courts to enforce their own laws!
Oh, I almost forgot. I had the pleasure of having to become a Mexican Citizen (I must admit I was planning on doing it anyway) because the local district attorney stated, “You are a gringo illegally in Mexico, you cannot file a criminal complaint against a Mexican on Mexican soil. Where is your visa?” chuckle, chuckle (can you imagine if we said that to every one of the ten billion Mexican illegals we have in this country every time they stuck their hand out for public services?
Violent crimes against Americans go unpunished because they are private party issues and social in nature not legal problems needing resolutions.
WOW viva Mexico
Pedro
February 2nd, 2008 at 5:32 pm
My wife and I are residents of Playa Dorada,
Playa Dorada was the first attempt by the Grijalva’s to develop their property dating back to 1991. Many Americans signed lease contracts with the Grijalvas’ with the promise that the lease contracts would be converted to Bank Trusts.Their agents, Mr. Paco Meza or Omar Saenz contracted and built houses along the beachfront for the Americans. Things were beautiful until North Beach (Juan Luis Martin Reyes) arrived on the scene. To set some facts straight, the Grijalva’s are the owners of the property. They entered into a contract with Juan Luis Martin to create the company Playa Norte. The Grijalvas used their property as their investment in the company and became the 51% major shareholders and the primary signers for the company, The property was placed in Trust with Bancrecer, with the Grijava’s being the primary signers. Mr. Martin held 49% in the agreement and his obligations were clear. #1. Deposit several million dollars in the Trust account to be used for installation of infrastructure.( The money has never been put into the account. There is no record of any deposit.) # 2. His obligation was for construction of the streets, installation of water, sewer and electricity (utilities), which do not exist. #3. It was also his obligation to acquire all the necessary licenses and permits from the State of Sonora and the City of Puerto Penasco for the Development. Needless to say there are no approved subdivision plans or permits in the North Beach Development with the exception of Las Gardinas. North Beach never had a license to sell property, only to develop. This can be verified by logging on to the website of Increson or the public registry in the State of Sonora. There is a list of developments and it shows the licenses and permits that were granted by the state. For all the people who have been the victims of fraud at North Beach, understand that the Grijalva’s have been the victims of fraud as well, by the same person or people as you. They had no choice but to file litigation against their partner to protect their property and their investment. Their mistake was that they gave Juan Luis a power of attorney and dominion over the property and made him the CEO of Playa Norte. The rest is history as you know it. This is a very complicated situation because these people are sophisticated criminals who use the law to protect themselves while conducting illegal activities. As you know, this includes American developers and attorneys as well, who continue to try and convince unsuspecting American investor’s that all is well, when we all know that it is not.
February 3rd, 2008 at 5:54 pm
Bill Blakemore said,
on February 1st, 2008 at 3:30 am
I bought a “pre-construction” unit in a project that to date has still not yet started, although I am a bit concearned, and anxious, I think the best and only realistic thing to do is be open minded, and aware of all the issues involved.
I know things are done so different there in Mexico then they are here in the States, and the “first appearance’’ is often not what it seems.
I would like to think that there are only one or two projects that have problems, but as I search and watch, I find out that every single project in Rocky Point has gone through and many are still going through things that seem to be impossible, or insurrmountable.
I have many friends who have bought, and are still buying real estate in Rocky Point. They have at times hit a “lull” in the market, or had delays on the site, but everything has always worked itself out and been fine.
I read some of the other comments on this site, and I get the idea that many really think that in Mexico the “Political Powers” are in control of everything, and that the “Judicial System” is controled by them. This is so INCORRECT. It may be a little “old fasioned” then what we used to here, but they are two seperate powers that can only do that which they are empowered to do.
There have been many millions of dollars made in Rocky Point in real estate, and there will be no end to this, as in every desirable area.
February 5th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
In 2000 I invested in a Kasita at NorthBeach. I had been in the priesthood for 20+ years. I had saved a little over $4,000.00 which was enough to get a bank loan for approx $40,000.00 to pay for the Kasita. The Kasita program was to provide property management that paid the owner 1% per month which should have made the payment on my bank loan. The Kasitas were never built and I received only (1) penalty payment from NorthBeach (approx $400.00)
Needless to say, I could not make the bank payment and in order to protect my credibility, I left the priest hood in order to generate enough income to pay the bank. The bank was very generous in giving me some extra time in which to repay the loan.
I have since completed college courses to become a registered nurse. It will take me many years to pay back my college loans and bank loan. I will continue to do missionary work as time permits as a service to the Lord.
I believe that everyone will have their judgement day and trust the Palacios and Martins will be prepared to justify their actions.
February 5th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
I was recently directed to your website.
I am heartsick about all of the losses incurred by people investing in NorthBeach and Mexico. My wife and I invested in NorthBeach in early 2000 and our dream of a retirement residence on the beach has vanished.
We knew of others who purchased not far down the beach who received Bank Trusts - maybe we could have done a better job of “due diligence”; however, after reading your web site, I don’t know if it would have made a difference.
Shouldn’t we be protected by the NAFTA Trade Agreement? If neither the US or Mexican Governments are willing to help with the problems, what is the purpose of the agreement?
In my opinion, the developer of NorthBeach took the money, did not put in the infrastructure but instead put the funds in foreign bank accounts. What good are American dollars invested in Mexico, if the money isn’t there?
Your web site is doing a tremendous service to enlighten people to the dangers of investing in Mexico - I wish we would have had the opportunity to read something like this before we crossed the border!
February 6th, 2008 at 11:36 pm
Hey …great comments! I almost missed the comment page!!!!
If I was not looking to make a comment I would have missed the comments.
“I almost missed all these vital experiences and advice about the real estate deals in Mexico gone wrong! It would be a shame for anyone to “miss” these experiences.
Would you consider a specific link calling out “read comments”
I would want anyone to miss this part of your page, as I almost did.
These comments are a vital read for the 1000’s of victims out there.
At the very least they can have peace that they were/are not alone.
Great Job!
February 8th, 2008 at 4:23 am
for those of you wanting to invest in Sonora Mexico take a look at this:
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/b8c32/
before you invest! No amount of carefully planned and executed due dillegence on your part will give you the legal, ethical or moral protections in Mexcio that are afforded to you in America.
Our case is NOT one of title dispute, no land fraud just locals that want free beach land and those politicians that appease them for fear of a social movement against their political party.
moral of the story, don’t invest in Mexico!!!!! uerto Peñasco is th every tip of the iceberg!
February 8th, 2008 at 6:04 pm
Before you purchase property in Mexico, consider all of the following and if you still are persuaded by a realtor or convinced that you would benefit from an investment in Mexico, stop by your local state hospital because you will have grounds to be committed.
You purchase a new home or well maintained home located directly on the beach.
You close on the property today and let’s assume that all of the paperwork and transaction was legal but in some cases it is not.
You are anxious to get to your new home that you just invested $500,000.00 - $5,000,000.00 for. You decide to stop and get a case of cervesa to celebrate a little when you get home. When you leave the store where you bought the beer, you forget to signal your turn and the local police notice the US license plate on your car so they pull you over and order you to follow them to the police station. You can’t speak Spanish to defend yourself and are ordered to pay a fine of any amount. You notice that the cash register at the collection window is full of US dollars and you see (3) more US cars when you get back to the parking lot.
You go home and start making a list of items needed for the new house. You look in town first and find that what you want is not available or too expensive or poor quality. You decide to purchase everything in the states and rent the necessary vehicle to transport your purchases into Mexico.
You arrive at the border and find that the guard that accepts “pay offs” isn’t working so you get harassed a little and again, you can’t speak Spanish so you simply pay the duty of up to 25% of your purchases. You get to your new home on the beach, are exhausted and starting to wonder if your Mexico investment was really worth the trouble but you keep a positive attitude and get moved in.
Oh yes, while you were gone, there was a sand storm and all of your patios are full of sand and your new home is full of dust so you clean before unloading the truck.
You are a mechanical engineer so you attempt to do all of your maintenance yourself. After (1) year your patio tile need to be sealed to keep the environment from lifting the surface. You replace the rollers on your patio doors because they are so rusted (from the salt air) they won’t turn. You notice rusting on your water heater, air conditioner and inside your home to include anything metal such as faucets, door and cabinet hardware, and inside the refrigerator. After 2 years the paint is pealing off the house, the house needs to be scraped, power washed, primed and painted with (2) coats of paint. In (2) years plan on repeating the process. In (3) years the water heater is so rusty it needs to be replaced and in 5 to 7 years the heating and air conditioning equipment needs to be replaced. If your home is not connected to the government’s electrical grid, you also have to maintain your generator, solar panels, inverters and batteries.
And of course, if you want contact with the outside world, your only choice is satellite internet, phone service and television. The initial cost is expensive and you will more than likely have to contact a US company that is able to “smuggle” the equipment into Mexico and do the installation.
You work hard and keep your home well maintained inside and out. You notice that the termites have moved in and are starting to destroy everything that contains wood to include structural supports, doors, windows, and furniture. You call (3) termite companies before you find one that knows what a termite is. You tell them to treat the property and they inform you that they can’t offer a warranty because the termites are such a major problem in the area.
While you are back in the states, your paid security guard knows that you are gone and totally strips your property including the air conditioner and water heater. You are so frustrated that you sell your property at a huge loss and you get out of Mexico.
It is slightly better if you purchase a condo because your association fees cover maintenance. However, association fees are high and you are never guaranteed that the fees will not go up drastically. You also are subject to special assessments if additional repairs are needed. In some cases, you can rent your unit to recover some of the expense but utility costs are high and many people say they can not afford to rent their units when it is required that the heat or cooling would be needed.
Last but not least, the personal property taxes are low but don’t forget the federal zone tax, beach tax, concession tax, yearly renewal of your FM3, insurance, high utilities and the yearly renewal of your Bank Trust. And of course there is no mail delivery so you are responsible to see that all of these issues are addressed on time or you will be subjected to stiff penalties.
If you drive a car in Mexico, it must have US and Mexican insurance. If you are in an accident, your car may get impounded and you may have trouble recovering it. And of course, if you have your car near the ocean for a long period of time, it will start rusting like everything else.
This information is totally based on actual experience. If you can not do all of the work yourself, you can not afford to invest in Mexico. Mexico is a beautiful place to visit, but stay at a motel, resort or rent a condo. Make an effort to abide by all the laws and when you’re tired of Mexico —-GET OUT
Sorry Investor
February 10th, 2008 at 1:21 am
In the December issue of Rocky Point Times, an article appeared titled “Safe investments are abundant in Rocky Point” authored by Kent White. Mr. White is President of AMPI, an organization of real estate agent in Puerto Penasco. References were made regarding North Beach. His claim was that” investors are not losing their money; there are delays in getting title”. That statement was challenged in a letter to RPT indicating that since 1999, investors have not received refunds, title or trusts to purchased properties in North Beach. Clearly, that money is lost. Other claims in his article were addressed in the rebuttal letter which was never published in RPT.
In the January issue of Rocky Point Times, an unsigned article appeared titled “Facts about North Beach”. The article referenced projects allegedly completed in North Beach that were lies. Specifically,
“Some readers may be aware that a golf course designed by Fazio was
built during this period as were streets, lagoons, a water desalinization
plant, and a water treatment plant. The full electrification of the property
was also accomplished during these difficult years.”
To date, there is no golf course; no streets, no lagoons, no power to partially constructed buildings and no street lights, and the desalinization and water treatment plant have ever been completed.
A call was made to Rocky Point Times to determine who authored the article and they refused to disclose that information. It was later determined that the article was written by Mr. Raul O’Farrill, a Mexican attorney and advertiser in RPT. A rebuttal article was submitted it to RPT to set the record straight. Additionally, several North Beach investors wrote letters to the editor as well. Receipt of the letters was acknowledged by the editor but never published.
On January 25, a meeting was held with Sandy O’Hare regarding the rebuttal for the article “Facts about North Beach”. It was indicated that the response would not be printed as provided, but in a “revised” form. It is clear Rocky Point Times will not report factual or accurate information about real estate issues in Rocky Point.
Administrator
February 12th, 2008 at 6:25 pm
I’m really sorry to hear about all the bad luck for some investors in Mexico, but upon reading many of the comments, I have to respond that many comments are inaccurate and or incorrect. I had the fortune or misfortune of inheriting a beach house on the strip of sand next to Manny’s Beach Club. These are single family homes which were built 10 to 25 years ago
depending on which section you are in. This area is also the most prime beachfront property in Rocky Point.
My father had purchased the property in 2001 and of course when I took over the house I had quite an experience going through the bank trust process. My trust was done with a cost of 5k US dollars. But people! people! people!, the one skill I learned in College that still serves it’s purpose today and that is RESEARCH! I had no clue what a Fideicomiso was.The first thing I did was to get on the internet and READ. After educating myself I felt comfortable hiring a US attorney and discussing the situation. It took a year to complete due to a breakdown
in communication between the bank and the notario, but I did get it done.
Also, the bank trust is good for 50 years and does not need to be renewed
every 2 years as mentioned above. I have no clue what that person is talking about, having to renew every 2 years.
Was my situation flawless, definitely not. I had to fight the mexican house keeper for a year to get her out of the house, as she thought she could claim she was married to my father. Of course she had no proof, and the Bank Trust was my saving grace. I learned how the Mexican system worked first hand and I have a nice house to visit when I want with no mortgage to worry about. IS the system there flawed, yes it is, but no more than many other places I have lived in the US and abroad. The bottom line here is that the USA is the greatest country on the planet and gives the most freedoms and basic rights to it’s citizens bar none! But dishonesty is not isolated to Rocky Point, Mexico.
The bottom line is that you people couldn’t see the forest through the trees.
You saw the colorrful brochures and paid out all that money. Mexico isn’t the USA, the laws are very different and no one seems to be held acountable for the crimes, but don;t think for a minute this doesn’t happen in the US as well. Remember Charles Keating anyone????? How many hundreds of millions were people bilked out of? It’s a gamble sometimes, but for heavens sake DO YOUR HOMEWORK!!!!! wherever you invest your money.
Those are very unfortunate circumstances, but your situations alone do not make the rest of Rocky Point a bad place, nor a poor investment.
February 13th, 2008 at 12:55 am
I mis-quoted when I talked about the Bank Trust having an annual renewal fee. The Bank Trust in fact, has a annual “maintenance” fee that has to be paid after the first 2 years. If you are not paying your annual maintenance fee, you will be required to pay the fee + penalty. Everybody that abides by the Mexican laws pays annual Bank Trust maintenance fees.
February 13th, 2008 at 7:31 pm
shaon smith said,
ON FEBRUARY 13, 2008 AT:02:38 AM
We have been travelling to Rocky Point for about 25 years and just finished construction on our second home. You are doing a grave injustice to the homeowners who have purchased, want to purchae or are trying to sell their real estate because of a few deals gone awry. I can name at least twenty developments in Arizona where American developers took money for real estate deals and left people holding the bag so to speak. It doesn’t matter what country you’re in, everyone needs to do their homework. Rocky Point is a wonderful place to live and vacation. Try to buy something near the ocean in the US at these prices. It sounds like this website was started by a disgruntled investor.
February 13th, 2008 at 7:34 pm
In response to Shaon Smiths’ comments: We, as well have been traveling to Rocky Point for about 15 years. For the past seven years we and many other investors have been trying to acquire real estate in the area. Unfortunately, these investors have been taken in by sleazy land owners and developers leaving investors “holding the bag” to the tune of over $50 million dollars. And these developers continue to lie and defraud potential investors in the area. So, according to the writers logic, real estate fraud in the US and real estate fraud in Rocky Point implies that two wrongs make it right?
We could not agree more with the writer’s observation; Rocky Point is a wonderful place to live and vacation. It would be orders of magnitude better if the fraud and lies would stop, $50 million dollars were refunded to hundreds of investors and all could enjoy this beautiful place.
To those who feel a grave injustice is being done by this website, we suggest they complain to the real estate community, the shady developers, and authorities who continue to allow the fraud. It is not the purpose of this website to discourage others from investing but rather to educate and alert them to potential pitfalls in investing in Rocky Point.
Oh, by the way, the website is supported by not one disgruntled investor but by hundreds of investors.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:38 am
No one is disagreeing with the magnitude of the situation in Rocky Point, but the fact remains the same no matter how it is sliced and the fact that it was in Mexico ( a foreign country) should have made the point of doing more research all the more valid. I could not begin to imagine losing the kind of money other people have and yes, we sympathize very much so.
I have not told my complete story of my adventures in Mexico and do not plan to for awhile anyway, but it was not all cherry pie dealing with the Mexican house keeper and I also spent time in the jail in Rocky Point
for absolutely not breaking any laws at all, am I pissed as hell??? You better believe it, I do know something about Mexcian justice and it isn’t pretty. What is amazing is the fact that I met some of the nicest people
(my current neighbors) who stayed and helped me fight it out there. The majority of my neighbors have had property investments in Rocky Point for over 25 years without a single hitch. Of course these are single family homes and not the large community type projects which are fairly new in comparison.
I am all for spreading the truth, but truth be known (FAIRLY) there are many investment opportunities there and you cannot be judge and jury for the rest of the people who have had good luck and done the research.
I learned about the Mexican system the hard way, but I can tell you I would most certainly take the jail time over losing that much money.
We will see if the investigative reporter on the show tonight has done his homework, or just created a lopsided judgmental mess. Remember, there are always two sides to every story.
February 19th, 2008 at 3:45 am
A BIG thank-you to the administrators of this website for providing valuable information about various developments in Puerto Penasco to those considering investing in the area. I wish this information had been available to my family nine years ago when we purchased our piece of “paradise” at North Beach. Many bloggers mention “doing the research” prior to investing in Mexico. Let me assure you that no amount of research could have predicted (or prevented) what we walked into at that time. After reading the comments posted on this website, it is evident that hundreds of investors have fallen victim to organized fraud that still exists in Puerto Penasco today. I’m sure that these investors did not take 2nd mortgages on their homes and invest their savings ($50 million dollars) without “doing the research.” It is apparent that fraud will continue until the US and Mexico governments step in and take action. How long will that take??
February 19th, 2008 at 5:38 am
Update: El Golfo Sonora.
On Feb 6, 2008 a criminal complaint was filed against some squaters. On Tuesday Feb 12, 2008 60 state judicial police and scores of local municipal police descended upon the squatters occupying Lot 2 & 3 in El Golfo Colonia Melchor Ocampo and evicted them. 6 days in order to get the political machine in order to take care of business for the fellow politician whose land was invaded. No mention in the paper of the real owners in the newspapers but all editorials hinted at this situation.
When the authorities were asked why the same law does NOT apply to our situation (that have been fighting for almost three years to get our land back) we were told the Governor was upset that they squatted on these peoples land and they needed to leave so HE ordered the eviction. SIx days and that was because it took them 4 days to get to El Golfo or they would have been there sooner.
Tell me Mexican law protects American Investors!!! Our title is just as good as the people on Lot 2 & 3. The first State District Attorney that actually helped me WITHOUT asking for a dime gets “transfered” the week before he was to file for indictments against the 2 squatters on our land???!! How can that be explained? And it gets better! This morning the new investigator berates me because I basically allowed the terrorists to knock my block wall down. Go figure, you play by the legal rules and you loose. The state of Sonora still refuses to execute our arrest warrants because again, throwing Americans off their legally acquired and titled land is a social problem and not a legal one!
the saga continues!
Pedro
February 25th, 2008 at 11:58 pm
In response to the quote above “I’m sure that these investors did not take 2nd mortgages on their homes and invest their savings ($50 million dollars) without “doing the research.” It is apparent that fraud will continue until the US and Mexico governments step in and take action. How long will that take?? ”
You can jusitfy or not all you want about what you paid for and what you got, slice it dice it, julienne it, the fact remains the same, unless you received a Fideicomiso in your name properly endorsed by the local notario etc. you had, yes “had” no chance of receiving anything, I don’t know if any of you people who lost all your money were aware of this
or not before you handed over tthe money. My house was inherited
and I had to jump through incredible amounts of legal hoops to get it changed to my name, and I had no clue either what I was in for, but I can tell you flat out with 100% confidence that without the Fideicomiso we had, I would have lost the house to the Mexican housekeeper. So yes I do know what I am talking about when it comes to owning property in Mexico.
No Fideicomiso, no NADA!
February 27th, 2008 at 11:27 pm
So I see a billboard of Villa Cortez on this site, does this mean that this is yet another one of the properties in Mexico that will never be built? It was supposed to be built by Oct of 2007 and now they are stating 2009.
February 28th, 2008 at 10:10 pm
I am posting this to educate those considering purchasing property in Rocky Point.
My purpose is two-fold. First and most personal, is recovery of my funds and second, to keep this from happening to others again, as evidenced by recent activity in Puerto Penasco; specifically with Rivera Real and Playa Azul. To those who keep reminding investors to “do their home work”, please note that every attempt was made to do my homework as indicated below. I will outline key steps that were taken that I believed protected my purchase, and allowed me to feel confident that my purchase was a safe one.
In 2000, my brother and I invested in North Beach consisting of two (2) beach front lots in Las Gardenias, and one (1) condominium called Kasita. Our plans were to use the income from the Kasita to fund the Kasita purchase, and visit Puerto Penasco and stay in the Kasita on personal vacations while building individual homes on the two lots, selling the Kasita when our homes were completed.
Prior to additional legal fees, trips to Phoenix from out of state for NBIAG meetings, etc. our purchase was in excess of $80,000. Please note that I use the term purchase rather than investment, as we didn’t feel that our entire payment would be fraudulently diverted. My brother secured a second mortgage on his home, and I withdrew funds from my retirement savings.
Although I felt the claims of wild appreciation by the North Beach sales personnel were excessive, I certainly felt at worst I would have a Kasita/Condo to visit and “empty” land that would be mine (through the bank trust system, protected by title insurance), even if the canals, golf courses, etc. were very slow in coming.
I believed that the steps I took, outlined below protected me from outright fraud and the possibility of ending up with nothing.
1. I reviewed the documents provided by the North Beach Sales group (Estela Palacio and Frank Jackson), and arranged a visit to the property prior to signing any contract or making any payments. Upon my initial visit in March 2000, construction was underway on the initial group of Kasitas ,
2. I investigated the Puerto Penasco City website and Las Gardenias was listed as an “approved” development, which stated that correct documents and legal requirements were in place.
3. I had Estela Palacio (Principal in the company) confirm that she had power of attorney and had specific provisions added to my contract stating, that if property was not delivered in promised condition and title insurance was not available, I would receive all of my monies refunded with a 1% penalty payment included. (May 24, 2000 contract signing with a November 24, 2000 delivery commitment).
4. The contract for renting the Kasita stated that monthly payments would begin on a October 2000 delivery date, (subsequent communications stated that I would receive monthly payments even though delivery had not occurred). To date that amount would be $521 x 87 months = $46,327.
5. Mexican attorney Francisco J. Manzo Taylor, reviewed my draft contract to ensure that it was a valid contract and IF the property was not delivered in the promised condition (with title insurance) I would be legally entitled to refund, plus a 1% penalty) He confirmed it was a valid contract and that my money would be recoverable.
6. Prior to signing our contact I contacted Mitch Creekmore of Stewart Title, asking the status of title insurance. Mr. Creekmore stated carefully although insurance had not been issued it appeared items were in place to move forward. He did caution that the letter attached to NB contract was not a guarantee by Stewart Title to issue insurance.
7. I also felt protected as my checks were mailed (via US mail, to a US address in Chula Vista California and deposited at the Bank of America in Chula Vista California as well.)
I discovered that my checks were issued and cashed 5/24 and 6/08 of 2000 AFTER lawsuits had been filed regarding the ownership of land for the North Beach development, and this fact was fraudulently withheld during my inquires and purchase.
I requested refunds (and penalties as contractually guaranteed), beginning December 20, 2000.
We individually and as a group attempted to get assistance, direction and JUSTICE, from anyone we thought could help including:
-Legal representation by an experienced Mexican/American attorney
-Appraisal and Survey by Bruce Greenberg
-Negotiations with Raul O’Farrill, representing North Beach
-Direct contact with land owner Juan Luis Martin, Jr.
-Puerto Penasco real estate community
-State and Federal US government
-Mexican Local and Federal government
-Most recently, and sadly perhaps most effectively the US media, Arizona Republic Newspaper, ABC 15 Phoenix news.
Going to help spread the word…”BE CAREFUL…BE VERY CAREFUL..
February 28th, 2008 at 11:01 pm
Debbie Says:
February 28th, 2008 at 8:35 pm e
I can tell you that I am an investor in Villa Cortez and the initial schedule was that the development would be complete in October of 2007. It has not even begun ,and the partner is saying now sometime in 2009.
February 29th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
Debbie,
Your concerns about your investment in Villa Cortez are valid. It is another one of several developments in Rocky Point that appears to be in financial difficulty.
Word is out that the developer has lost the infrastructure financing and as recently as yesterday I heard that Villa Cortez will never happen.
This is the second attempt by this individual to develop this project. The first time it was called “Village II Project” and many investors put money in that project in 2000 and 2001 and obviously it never happened. This is another example of a developer collecting “pre construction” money which is common practice in Rocky Point. If the developer does not build, he has millions of dollars in his pocket and the investors are the only ones that lose. The Rocky Point Times will print anything without investigating the “facts” so the public will not be aware of the status of these projects.
If you are concerned about your investment or know of others in the same position, I have heard about a meeting on March 5th in Phoenix with Arizona Department of Real Estate and Sonoran officials. The contact information that was printed in the Arizona Star can be found at this website. http://www.azstarnet.com/allheadlines/227271.php
March 1st, 2008 at 8:12 am
Extensive research was done ( and there was plenty, including Fidocomiso’s)FRANKLY IT IS OFFENSIVE TO HAVE PEOPLE SUGGEST THAT RESEARCH WASN’T DONE… DUH…MY BANK ACCOUNT HAS $1,000S GONE FOR LAWYERS AND RESEARCH! Let’s not even start on the PHYSICAL cost in years off my life due to the stress of trying to do the research right!
Fact: There is no RIGHT! There is one disappointment after another. The attitude of most Mexican lawyers “it is layers of corruption that will NEVER be cleared up.” Taken from Arizona Republic article, 4th quarter 2007.
THE FACTS REMAIN;100’s of people are affected by MILLIONS OF DOLLARS LOST to developers who are STILL SELLING PROPERTIES 2/29/2008 TODAY!!!!!(complete with golf courses and lagoons..) But it was published in an article in The Rocky Point Times as FACT! Golf courses???? Lagoons?
These developers are still TAKING PEOPLEs MONEY and the authorities both MEXICAN and US have been operating with BLIND EYES even though 100s of victims have been asking the US and the Mexican authorities to intervine.
In order to develop you have to have a permit and currently (today)permits on these properties in question are in litigation and are supposed to be withdrawn/work halted! Yet (due to payoffs and corruption and government officials owning in the development)the selling and advertising and victimizing goes on! EVERY DAY! TICK…TICK…TICK
There is a question that these permits have not even EVER been issued!
There is supposed to be NO WORK until there is a PERMIT. No MONIES COLLECTED>>>NADA! Yet the salespeople are and have been selling …the billboards are still up and keep going up after each wind storm and The Rocky Point Times prints articles that it knows for fact to be untrue!?!? Golf Courses? Lagoons?
I commend this blog… IT IS INCREDULUS what these developers and government and city officials are getting away with!
AND I AM TALKING U.S. AND MEXICAN…
Heck one Mexican attorney involved in several of these developments gone bad is the first NAFTA Appointee Mexican attorney and among many liberties afforded to this Mexican he is allowed to teach an Ethics Class in Real Estate in the State of Arizona!
You have to HIT THE OFFENDERS IN THE POCKET BOOK!
Boycott Rocky Point AND SAY WHY!!!!!!!!!
Lack of money….TALKS!
Stop buying from advertisiers in The Rocky Point Times. Tell the merchants who distribute it the lies it prints…Golf Courses?! Lagoons?! Locals merchants know there is no golf course or lagoon.
Ask about the US/Arizona State groups encouraging relations and work exchange programs with the Arizona Department of Real Estate and tourism…why spend advertising monies on lies???? Is that tax payer monies????There are no golf courses or lagoons at these places! Desalanization plant…it’s all desert! NADA but SAND! why promote it? (unless you have something to gain??)
Kudoo’s to all that BLOG here with your experiences…even the people who have been blessed with success…it’s nice to know success is an experience for some…for me it’s something I must still aspire to!
Keep the experiences coming…United we stand…Strength in numbers!
We will PREVAIL!
Tell everyone you know about this site!
Thank you for this site!
March 1st, 2008 at 11:15 pm
Elizabeth - your blog is WONDERFUL! It is totally accurate with facts!
You too, have noticed the continued lies that are printed in the Rocky Point Times - I would recommend that anyone with a subscription cancel it.
Let’s see how many advertisers are interested advertising in a paper that no one reads!
Lets work together to get the unethical”first NAFTA appointed Mexican attorney” stripped of the title he didn’t deserve in the first place!—- And he is giving classes on “ethics”? —-What is ethical about terroistic acts on homeowners? Is this Osama bin Laden’s brother or worse?
March 2nd, 2008 at 4:56 pm
Elizabeth, you are exactly right. Your statements are accurate and correct. You say the NAFTA appointed Mexican attorney teaches ethics? Several individuals have filed complaints with the Arizona State Bar - the complaints were dismissed because of lack of evidence when in fact the Arizona State Surpreme Court (who appointed him) did not want “egg on their face”.
I recommend everyone that has had affiliation with him and knowing that he practices unethically, file a complaint with the Arizona Attorney General’s office. People may or may not be aware this same person uses terroristic methods to harrass homeowners in the Rocky Point area and the local authorities do absolutely nothing about it. If the Arizona Attorney General ignores the legitimate complaints, it will be necessary to get national media involved to make the general public aware.
Furthermore, I feel no pity for the people in Rocky Point for “lack of business” That includes not only development sales offices but also local merchants. Realtors in Puerto Penasco were aware of the fraud at NorthBeach 7 years ago!! Yes, 7 years ago. They refused to do anything about it because sales were skyrocketing and they were “lining their pockets”. You must understand I use the term “realtor” reluctantly because there is no governing agency to regulate them. The most they can offer is to tell one that your purchase is a “no brainer” you “must buy now” to get the best price.
I avoid the town as much as possible because I have experienced the majority of the merchants ignore my presence at restaurants (if there are “locals” available to wait on). I refuse to buy at the “shrimp market on the malacon” that openly admits they have (2) scales to weigh the shrimp - one of which will give you about 3# for a 5# price. You would think after several years that a “repeat” customer would be more valuable than a “one time” customer that they ripped off.
It is hard to get anyone’s support when Rocky Point is full of unethical merchants, realtors, attorneys and city officials that cannot operate without payoffs, especially when all of these practices are backed by the Rocky Point Times. Believe me - this is NOT MARGARITA VILLE!
March 4th, 2008 at 3:35 am
I have worked in Penasco for 20 years. First selling lumber to the lumberyards and then selling my wife Fabiola’s land in Puerto Penasco. I know all about the corruption in Mexico (sometimes its a great thing) and I agree with most comments in this blog. But I would bet money that most of these buyers did not get the opinions of any notaries in Puerto Penasco before forking over there money to these crooks. We have sold lots of houses and land in Puerto Penasco without any problems. From what I have seen and had to deal with from Americans in Puerto Penasco most of them deserve what they get. I said most- I have also met some very nice and important people. We still have land for sale but with the US economy the way it is we are selling to Mx. nationals.
March 4th, 2008 at 3:51 am
My comment “most of them deserve what they get” relates to american buyers not following proper procedures when buying property anywhere.P.S. I went to high school with one of Ned Warrens kids.((Arcadia).I also live in Maricopa Az. where a builder skated with a bunch of deposits not to long ago. This kind of stuff happens everywhere. In Puerto Penasco Im sure it was Americans that taught the Mexicans how to do it.
March 6th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
Personally, I wouldn’t purchase property in Mexico unless I intended to live there. Real estate historically has been an awful investment, returning about 1% a year after adjusting for inflation and maintenance costs. The increases in real estate prices over the last decade has been fueled by speculation and fraud, and now it’s collapsing in the U.S., Europe, Australia, and in the Mexican resorts that have overbuilt, like Rocky Point. If people just purchased homes that they can afford to live in, rather than as “investments,” we wouldn’t have this problem. (My blog shows the Maricopa County preforeclosure rates skyrocketing.)
I love to visit Rocky Point about once every other year, but I’m quite happy renting other people’s condos when I do so.
It’s interesting that the RockyPointExposed.com site shows the same names again and again in these failed developments–the Martins, the Grijalvas, Morrill.
March 6th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
Gia Heller says:
March 6th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
Hello,
I applaud your website for allowing people to see what are and what are not viable projects in Rocky Point, Mexico. I just wanted to drop a note, that the SONORAN RESORTS at Sandy Beach (Sonoran Spa, Sonoran Sea, Sonoran Sun & Sonoran Sky) were all delivered ON TIME or EARLY by the developer. Everyone that bought at these projects received a clear and free bank trust deed to the property. When we sell, we make sure there are no leins, all taxes are paid and that in general, the buyer is protected.
I just wanted to put it out there, that there are safe projects where you can purchase and you have licensed MEXICAN real estate agents whom have gone through over 100 hours of Mexican real estate law classes to ensure that we can protect the buyer. Your site makes claim that you should always do business with a licensed AZ Real Estate agent. The truth is, that is fine as a credential, but without the Mexican real estate degree to back it up, and the knowledge of the local laws, a straight up AZ Agent could not handle protecting a buyer. Also, there are many realtors in town like myself that advised our clients strongly against the North Beach area in general, and certain projects in that area. Many people bought AGAINST the advice of said real estate professionals.
I am reachable for questions about purchasing legally and correctly in Rocky Point Arizona as well as property consultations.
Gia Heller
Real Estate Investment Specialist
Top Producer 2007
Sonoran Spa, Sea, Sun & Soon to be Sky Resales
SONORAN SEA OFFICE: 602.476.7511
RESIDENCE/VOICEMAIL: 480.626.4698
USA FAX: 602.476.1633
MEX FAX: 011.52.638.382.8547
MEX HOME PHONE: 011.52.638.382.8415
MEX CELL PHONE: 011.52.1.638.107.6235
March 6th, 2008 at 6:20 pm
When I read these comments I am appalled but not surprised. Back in 1998 I helped a local concert promoter with a big Labor Day weekend party. I was working at a Phoenix radio station. My promoter client arranged contractually with a Rocky Point club owner to partner with him and split all the profits. My radio station brought in the national entertainment. After all the contracts were agreed upon and signed by all parties, the lengthy planning started. When my wife and I arrived for the weekend my promoter was hanging his head as the Presidente’ of Rocky Point had charged him a $25,000 fee, cash I might add. To make matters worse, the club owner he had partnered with decided at the last minute to “pull out” and it was too late to cancel the entertainment. There was no recourse, and my promoter walked away with his tail between his legs and about $100 grand less in his wallet. No protection. When dealing with Mexico, you are dealing with a third world country and your rights are a joke!
March 6th, 2008 at 6:37 pm
My husband and I paid cash for a lot in North Beach, I ‘ve tried repeatedly to get answers. We bought to have a place on the beach for our retirement, and to have our kids and grandkids have a place to come and vacation with us. My husband recently died and of course never got to enjoy “our beach property”, we were ripped off!!! I brought this to the attention of Stewart Title years ago and was treated rudely by them. I believe something strange is going on with the international dept. of Stewart Title. Also, I tried to bring this to the attention of channel 12 news to warn other people, but they too wouldn’t expose these people. Stewart title continues to endorse properties which are questionable in Mexico I was told the title insurance was worthless but yet I still see many properties which claim your investment is safe because you have title Ins. with an American title company namely Stewart Title. If anyone has any info they can offer regarding receiving any justice about this Please let me know.
March 6th, 2008 at 6:45 pm
I would like to make everyone aware that if you are purchasing beach front property you will need a ‘CONCESSION’.
You should not pay any federal zone taxes before getting your concession.
Nobody told us about this when we bought our beach front condo in Las Conchas. We are still waiting for our trust to be completed (which is taking FOREVER with banamex), so we cannot even apply for a concession yet. We keep getting fines for not having the concession, but we hired an attorney to put a hold/stop on our case for now. She has helped several of the beach front home owners in Las Conchas fight the penalties that SEMARNAT keeps imposing for not having the concession (A concession takes as long as a trust to get. Even if you pay the fines, they just keep sending you more until you get the concession).
The funny thing is - our condo is over 30 years old - and it has never had a concession, which is federal law in Mexico. The government has just now decided to start enforcing this law. So heads up!
March 6th, 2008 at 8:35 pm
Can any one give me some kind of advise on buying 1/8 share from an LLC on Sandy Beach. Thank you Sal
March 6th, 2008 at 9:13 pm
Has anyone heard what is the “latest & greatest” with Playa San Jorge??
March 6th, 2008 at 9:45 pm
Sal;
Unless the other 7/8th of the LLC is owned by your wife, run like the wind!
March 7th, 2008 at 2:25 am
Hello,
I am a licensed Realtor in Rocky Point and I want to commend this website. It is unfortunate that the motivation for the information is because of the poor, and costly experiences of so many.
But, one of the positive things that I have read is that it appears to be very factual. Names, places and dates. And with facts people now have the truth exposed and have the opportuntiy to do the right thing. Also, it is a forum for people to share their experiences and learn.
I would like to share my experience from the Realtor side not to defend anything or anybody but to help add some fact to the discussion.
I have practiced here for the last three years. I didn’t come from a real estate backround and when I arrived I tried to learn as much about how to do a real estate deal as I could so as not to embarrass myself and to also represent the parties in the transaction correctly. I found it nearly impossible to get the information. The reason in my view is that a transparent real estate market doesn’t exisit as it does in the U.S. In Mexico, they take the cliche “Information Is Power” to a level not normally seen in real estate in the U.S.
In Mexico if I have the information and you want it, then I’m going to charge you for it. There isn’t much interest in educating more people and growing the pie, creating more competition and an efficient market. In Mexico, it is a zero sum game and if I win then you lose. So I found it very difficult to find the information that I wanted so I could learn the process because someone else with the information would hurt somebody and not help the market.
In February of 2007 after attending all the seminars on Mexican real estate that I could, the majority of which resembled more of an infomercial for the speakers then a true educational seminar, I found that I still didn’t have the knowledge base that I craved. So I took it upon myself to start reading the Sonoran Real Estate laws and the Laws that govern notarios in the State of Sonora
Now, Spanish is my second language and the laws were all in Spanish so it took some effort to read and understand everything as far as the process goes. But what I discovered was shocking.
I found that the standard of care in this market for a typical real estate transaction involving the resale of a property that has a title or a Bank Trust already, didn’t conform to law in Sonora in almost 100% of the cases. When I asked some of my piers in the industry if they knew about this, the majority of them did not know the correct process nor did they practice it. I even asked some of the Notarios in town and they all knew what I was talking about and nervously tried to answer my question, but all of them changed the subject and where late for something else. In defense of my piers, I believe that they acted out of ignorance and not malice. The notarios, they knew better.
I attempted to put in practice what I had learned two different times representing two different buyers on two different lots with the same local broker and found it nearly impossible to close the deals because the broker didn’t understand the process. While they didn’t disagree with the facts they preferred to close the transaction the “customary” way, which left the buyer who I was representing unprotected.
But, things are changing. Sonora revised a law requiring real estate agents to be licensed and attend a “diplimado” for education. There were 26 of us in the very first class which graduated in July 2007. Now there are close to 150 people who have attended and are in the process of being licensed.
This doesn’t help those who have suffered in the past, but there are many real estate professionals here that are more educated and qualified in the process to help the next person invest safely then there were last year. But I agree with the comments here. The consumer has to demand better representation.
In summary, Mexico still offers a wonderful lifestyle and safe investments. You just need to make sure that you have someone that is representing you, the buyer, and not their own special interest.
I’m not an attorney nor do I play one on t.v. but, if I can assist anyone with the knowledge that I have gained on mexican real estate I would welcome the opportunity.
Thank you for your consideration and time in reading my reply.
Robert Russell
Robert@tv-mexico.com
March 7th, 2008 at 3:12 am
I have personal experience with real estate investments in Rocky Point. That said I do most of my real estate sales in Northern Baja where we have many of the same issues with developments built off buyer deposits.
Americans forget caveat emptor (buyer beware) when they go to a different country and start hearing unfamiliar terms. Plus they get hynotized by familiar franchise logos and friendly looking faces that speak English. The fact is that you are only as secure as the disclosure of your agent and your own investment intelligence. And *standardized* disclosure is not a legal requirement in any state of Mexico yet including Sonora that has “liicensing.”
We founded the Baja Fair Trade disclosure standards which prevent the scenarios talked about in these stories. The standards are at the following link:
http://www.bajafairtrade.info/Our_Disclosure_Rules/page_1930560.html
These disclosures apply to a purchase anywhere in Mexico, not just Baja.
Now that said, I have witnessed that no matter how much you educate (and even WARN) buyers there are some that will pick the risky deal because it just seems soooo enticing, easier, cheaper, or whatever.
My sincere best wishes to those going through these problems. And my advice to all others to learn and not take the same risks without having eyes wide open.
March 7th, 2008 at 3:22 am
What a terrible tragedy all this is and kudos to you all for doing what you can to expose the fraud and apparent indifference (at best) or collusion of the Mexican AND U.S. authorities.
I certainly can’t fault anyone for not doing their homework. It sounds as if many of you tried (although it’s tough to do homework on something that is completely foreign and in another language). At some point most of us have to rely on attornies, real estate agents and title officers to some degree, even here in the U.S. That’s what we hire these people for.
We purchased a condo/townhome in the Mirador area last May (’07) and have been enjoying Rocky Point and our 2nd home immensely since that time. No REAL problems so far-only minor inconveniences with the way things are done in Mexico. I did quite a bit of research myself, but again at some point had to rely on professionals who I could only hope had my best interest at heart. I used real estate agents with Coldwell Banker and we used OTP (with the 4-leaf clover) for the trust documents. I felt further encouraged that several real estate agents from Coldwell Banker actually live full-time in the development.
I looked at Coldwell Banker’s website and it doesn’t appear that they endorse any of the “problem” properties, although I have no way of knowing if they did at some point in the past.
While clearly there are risks with buying property in Mexico, for every person that’s had a problem I would guess there are hundreds who have had no problem. Maybe those people are just lucky. I would prefer to think that the buyers of the North Beach properties are just unlucky or unfortunate.
As a few others have commented, this is not a problem that is isolated to Mexico. With the real estate slowdown hundreds (maybe thousands) of buyers have lost money in Arizona as well when developers go under. I think the biggest difference is that these developers have continued to dupe buyers over and over without recourse. I think eventually you would end up in prison if you tried that here.
I enjoy Rocky Point and obviously would encourage anyone thinking of buying property there to proceed deliberately and cautiously. But the fact remains that it is the closest beach to most of Arizona and still a dream location for a 2nd home for many Americans.
These issues, though gravely serious, appear to be the exception rather than the rule.
March 7th, 2008 at 4:00 am
Sal, Ben Baker gave you some good advice but if you want or need more info talk to Rocky Point Fractionals. They can tell you all about them. I am not affiliated with rp fractionals.———-I have lived and worked in Puerto Penasco for a long time. I understand completely what Richard says about the housekeeper almost getting his house. I know about the fixed scales at the fish market W. D. talks about and I completly understand what Gia is talking about. Most americans that buy here are completly out of there element and should seek the advice of either a good attorney or notary here in Penasco. The notaries here are good at what they do and will not let a crook take your money. I think most people blogging here have given money directly to the developers. These projects may not have started as frauds they simply failed. I dont know anybody involved on either side. In the states when a developer takes money and fails its called ” they went broke or bankrupt” here its called fraud and the whole town pays for it. P.S. as was written by somebody blogging here there are two sides to every story.
March 7th, 2008 at 4:37 am
Dan C., I beleive the OPT you refer to is owned by the attorney representing these North Beach Developers. Mucho cuidado
March 7th, 2008 at 6:15 am
Reply to Bill Cox. I was researching land scams in Rocky Point and came across thsi website, I saw your comments and felt compelled to respond. Bill, you may or may not remember me, but my wife and I attempted to purchase property in Rocky Point from you and your wife, Fabiola. On August 6, 2005 (21/2 years ago), my wife and I signed an Offer and Intent to Purchase Real Estate and tendered a check for $15,000.00 as a deposit on a lot in the Ejido Lopez Black Mountain area. At that time, there was no paved road to the property and business was slow. The highway had not been constructed. We did this through your real estate agent Dee of Blue Dolphins Real Estate. I also brought to other investors who also signed an agreement and tendered deposits. We met with you personally a few times and you assured me and my friends that as soon as you received the title to the properties, we would be able to complete the transaction and eventually become owners of the lots that we agreed to purchase. You even shook my hand and gave me your word that the titles to the lots were forthcoming. To your credit, our deposit checks were not negotiated; however, we did spend a great deal of time going several times to the property and to the real estate office to inquire about the status of the titles. Time after time, we were told that the titles would arrive soon. To this day, I have not heard from you or your real estate agent about title to the property. In your comment above, you state that you have had to sell the property to Mexican Nationals. Why would you have to do that when you have at least three buyers who have signed an Intent to Purchase and given your real estate agent deposit checks to purchase property? Is it because after the highway was built, the value of the propery increased and you chose to ignore those of us who were there when there was little interest in the properties? Altough we have no contractual right to purchase the property because you did not negotiate the deposit checks, I believe it was not ethical of you to falsely lead me and my friends into thinking that as long as we waited for awhile we would become owners of the lots that we placed deposits on. So, tell me what happened to the three lots that my friends and I were interested in purchasing?
March 7th, 2008 at 7:39 am
I am so tired of hearing these horror stories from so may people who have invested in Mexican real estate. When are people going to finally realize that Mexican property is still an extremely risky investment? There are so many ways one can get scammed and ripped off, not just in Rocky Point, but just about anywhere in Mexico. My advice is to get out now if you still can before you totally lose your shirts. If you really want to live in Mexico, then just rent and save yourself the grief and stress of putting a great deal of your hard earned money at risk. This situation would be laughable if it wasn’t so pathetic.
March 7th, 2008 at 4:08 pm
Be careful who you use to represent you in your purchase in Rocky Point.
Whether it be an attorney ( some are involved in the in law suits for
fraud ) a realtor ( some are so hungry that they continue to list and sell
properties that are under litigation or have no permites to sell ) title
companies (choose one who’s officers are not being sued for fraud )
The word is out about these individuals and properties but not to the extent that there will be no more victims.Check this web site often for updates.
Don’t be fooled. They are still trying to sell in these areas.
Don’t be the next victim of fraud. Fraud is fraud whether in Mexico or the USA!
March 10th, 2008 at 6:52 pm
I am a resident of Hermosillo, Sonora, and this frauds have never appeared on local media. You should contact sonoran newspapers like El Imparcial and Expreso, so everybody get informed about those dirty bussines happening in Puerto Peñasco.
Is well known here en Sonora, that all major investors in Rocky Point are close friends of state governor Bours.
Keep fighting for your money.
March 11th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
Dear Friends
Even though this note is not about real state I’m really concern about everything that is happening in Mexico not only in Sonora. I represent ANA Seguros, a Mexican Automobile Insurance Company and we have always tried to take good care of our customers when they unfortunately have an accident.
We understand very well how important it is to act fast and honestly, especially because I have very good friends in The United States and because if that ever happened to me in another Country I would like to be treated like that.
There is still very honest people in Mexico, feel free to contact me, good luck with the real state problem.
Receive my best personal regards.
Victor Urbieta
Tourist Automobile Sub. Director
victorug@anaseguros.com.mx
March 12th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
Checkout Boycott Baja……you are not alone. We just found out that we think Trump is involved. Wish I could email you the letter from his employee Luia Siguer. He called us loosers (his spelling), mindless stupid griingos and we should get the f&*^ out of Mexico and go back to our ghettos in the US.
We have a meeting with the Comptroller of Finance iin Mexico (who could that be) on Thurs. Win or lose, forget Mexico. We have had no help from the US. Better to be an illegal in US than an American in Mexico. Take your losses off on your income tax and check with your insurance co.
March 12th, 2008 at 4:25 pm
Can anyone tell me about Tri-Core Mexico Land Development LLC. They are really pushing several projects off of the Sonora Coast of Mexico. They have thrown out things like “Regulation D” and how the highway (which isn’t built yet) will change everything. Lot 47 and Lot 5 are what they are pushing and nothing is even up yet, which they have stated. The also have said that there are other communities around that have sold out. I personally will not be investing for several reasons 1) I don’t have the money and 2)It all sounds kind of shady to me. But a friend of mine is trying to get everyone he knows involved and I can’t help but think that he might get “scammed” himself.
I would love to hear some feed back and thank you for this sight.
March 12th, 2008 at 7:30 pm
“Checkout Boycott Baja”? Val, where can I found out more info on this topic? I am very interested!!
March 12th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
I did not invest in Rocky Point but in a place south of Cancun called Playa del Carmen. It has been a living nightmare. We bought in 2003. After it was completed in Sept of 2004 there was a gas explosion and a worker was killed. The complex took 6 months to repair. Shortly after that the foundation collasped in July of 2005. We have been in a law suit for over 2 1/2 years with no end in sight. We thought we were buying a piece of paradise and we truly love Mexico and the Mexican people but the investors/builders are a very wealthy and powerful family in Monterry Mx and have their hands in the pockets of all govt officials.
I am looking for imput on an American Attorney that we could hire that could speed up the process. It has been 4 1/2 years since we bought our condo and we used it 3 times. I would just like to get my money back even though the value has tripled since we bought. Like many of the comments I’ve read, this was my life savings and would advise anyone planning to buy in Mexico–DON’T.
Looking for help and advise.
Thanks. Jamie from Tucson
March 12th, 2008 at 10:54 pm
To Val and Pedro:Check out this link:
http://boycottbaja.org/media/ROSARITO%20HOMES%20%20KNSD%20TV.wmv
More information to follow.
March 13th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
Hi Ed. We have not heard from you in a long time so I was very surprised to find that you were posting here indicating you had problems with Twin (not Blue) Dolphins Real Estate and your offer on a lot at EJ Lopez near Black Mt. While memory is not always perfect here are the circumstances as we recall them:
1. At the time you made the offer on that property you were clearly informed that the title was not yet available and that the timetable for delivery was indeterminate. This delay on issuing the title came about because the state of Sonora stopped issuing new titles at the Ejido after a zone change request on another part of the Ejido, not because there is a question of ownership. Why they do this I don’t know, but they do it. Many titles have been issued, many lots have been sold with and without bank trusts.
2. We advised you against proceeding with your offer due to the fact that the title was not available and that we could not tell you when it would be available. We suggested that you wait and we would advise you when the titles were issued for that part of the Ejido.
3. You insisted on making an offer and submitting a deposit check despite the fact that you were aware the titles were not yet available. At the time you indicated that you were more concerned about getting in early and locking down the price than having a title immediately. Since you are an attorney and I seem to recall, a Mexican citizen, we assumed you were completely aware of all of the issues with this offer and the way you wanted to proceed.
Yes it is true that the highway is now paved well past J Lopez but that fact has had no impact on the separate issue of titles. While titles on those particular lots have yet to be issued, this is not because there are questions or problems around ownership and ability to sell. There are no law suites or legal issues whatsoever and there never have been.
While you were and still are free to come to Penasco and EJ Lopez or us at the office whenever you wish, a simple, toll free call to our office would tell you the status of the title on the property. Your visits were not required so it’s difficult to understand how you describe this as a hardship.
Ed, no one likes this state of affairs but there is little we can do about it. If you have any questions we at Twin Dolphins can help with, please do not hesitate to let us know.
You can phone toll free at 602-324-7241 Monday Thru Sunday.
Dee Brooks,
Twin Dolphins Real Estate
Puerto Penasco, Sonora, Mexico
March 13th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
Way to go Dee!
If all real estate companies were as quick to respond to a problem rather than just put more ads in the Rockypoint Times for a problem property and ignore the underlying issues we would all be making more money in Mexico.
March 14th, 2008 at 9:21 am
I seen one developer in RP that is building condo’s and will not sell until they are almost or complete.
March 14th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
Sorry to hear of the stories regarding the real estate scams. I highly recommend the Sonoran Properties. I bought my first condo in the Sonoran Sea and cleared over $50k (after capital gains) when I sold that property (1 Bedrom West building). I currently own a two bedroom, also in the Sea, which my family and friends enjoy very much.
Have faith, there are great people and great opportunities in Rocky Point.
ps - I am not a realtor, just someone who loves Rocky Point
Ross Donoghue
March 18th, 2008 at 12:19 am
I´m a proudly Sonoran, Mexican Citizen, working during the last 22 years in the Real Estate Business in Hermosillo, Sonora.
Since August 2002, when it started, I belong to AMPI Hermosillo´s Chapter and have been working hardly with my companions, focused in improving our knowledge and skills to give a better attention to the public user of our services (foreigner and domestic).
I have read with attention and concern all your comments and complaints and I feel really bad, as our intention has always been helping our clients to accomplish their transactions in the best possible way.
In 2002, Law 150 which created the State of Sonora´s Real Estate Agent´s Register, was approved. I understand that both Governments (Arizona and Sonora) were concerned about several complaints regarding frauds perpetrated against American Citizens in the Rocky Point´s Area (specifically in a develop called Playa Norte), and worked together trying to find solutions within the Arizona-Sonora Commission scenery to avoid new illegal transactions.
In 2004, members of the AMPI Hermosillo´s Board of Directors, concerned for the future of our Industry, did work in the creation of the Diplomado in Real Estate Property. For this reason, we signed an agreement between Secretaria de Economia, Instituto Sonorense de Administracion Publica and AMPI Chapter Hermosillo.
Time has passed since that moment, and fortunately today we are proud to be the first State in Mexico where a Real Estate license has been approved, thanks to the combined efforts of both Governments and the input and interest of people dedicated to this industry, specially AMPI Sonora and AAR members. During the last 5 years we have been meeting in Cities of both States, discussing different topics to understand better our respective work and legal procedures. We also participate in the Arizona-Sonora Commission meetings where we have had the opportunity to talk with Government´s representants. One special topic is the Arizona Public Report, which is an indispensable requirement for those developers who wants to advertise their new developments in Arizona.
I apologize in the name of our people for mistakes and misunderstandings we have had in the past, and we strictly condemn bad will´s people of any country against those good citizens who puts it´s confidence on them for making their investments.
I also want to thank those American Citizens who did mention their good experiences on investing in our Country. As you may notice, the complaints always coincide in a same time and a same place: Playa Norte, before 2002. As I understand in my reading, everybody knows the name of the persons involved in this case.
I´m really sorry for all the people who has suffered this awful experience,
but I also want to ask you not to judge all our people in the same way, specially when we are doing our best efforts coordinated with the Government to professionalise our Sonoran and Mexican agents to give investors (foreign and domestic) the higher quality in our services.
Mexico is a wonderful country full of friendly and honest people. We don´t deserve such a terrible fame, due to the irresponsability of a few persons. We are trying to be better everyday. Unfortunately, here like in the rest of the world, we also have delinquents from here and from other countries, looking for people who ignores the right procedures to follow.
My advice is, before investing in a foreign Country, read, learn and look for the right people who will be able to guide you safely throughout your transaction.
Don´t quit investing in your closest and beautiful beach, “Rocky Point”, or in any place of our wonderful country. Make your dreams come true. Just call an AMPI member. We are in all Mexico and also we are REALTOR members. TRUST US!!! We´ll be pleased to help you!!!
Norma Figueroa
March 18th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
Ms Figueroa,
I applaud your sense of patriotism, however, other investors in the State of Sonora have encountered serious problems. These “land issues” are not limited to Puerto Peñasco.
I have spent the past 32 months pleading, arguing, begging the executive branch and the judicial branches of the Sonoran Government at an extremely high financial, emotional and mental cost to myself and to my family fighting for an AUTHORITY in Sonora to protect us from local terrorists from attacking and harming our property and our persons.
What good is the law when the executive branch does not honor and apply the law blindly? What good are rulings from the Mexican Supreme Court when the executive branch will not honor them? What good are rulings handed down from the Sonora State Appeals Court when the executive branch will not honor them? I am tired of hearing from members of the Sonoran government that our isolated problem is a “SOCIAL” problem and not a legal problem!
We have title to a piece of land, not much, but legally purchased and paid in full, with a clean title that has been upheld by a 1998 Mexican Supreme Court ruling. Yet we have a bunch of hoodlums physically throwing us off our land and using Molotov cocktails and machetes and other weapons and it is called a social problem. A problem between private parties. I repeat, this is not Puerto Peñasco, it is the next powder keg, El Golfo de Santa Clara.
I have arrest warrants that have NOT been executed, sitting gathering dust because the EXECUTIVE BRANCH does not deem it necessary to execute these warrants!!!
Last time I checked the executive branch enforces the law, not the judicial branch. I had to sue the Sonoran government in Federal court (through an amparo) in order for them to execute my arrest warrants. I was denied the “Amparo” because no constitutional right was being violated by the state not enforcing their own arrest warrants. Currently, I await a response from the federal appeals court in order to force the executive branch to enforce a ruling from the state judicial branch! Although some of the indicted people are now subject to the judicial proceedings, not all have bothered to turn themselves in. Not one of these thugs has spent as much as a minute behind bars because of my arrest warrants.
How much training does a real estate agent need in the State of Sonora in order to get the executive branch to enforce it own laws? How much due diligence must foreign investors use in order to get the Sonoran Government to enforce their own laws?
I have clean title, yet I have squatters on my land because they have weapons and the ability to protest. How many credentials will get the Sonoran Government to protect the American investor from fraud and the violence? How much……..?
Their are MAJOR problems with real estate investment in Sonora, that must be addressed with real concrete solutions not just rhetoric
Pedro
March 23rd, 2008 at 3:50 pm
Shawna, Along with the CONCESSION for beachfront places RP has what they call a “Luxury Tax” on beach front home along with the normal city Taxes. My understanding is this money stays in RP.
When you pay your yearly city tax you go see Mario Chavez first to get the fee cost. Then you take it to the cashier to pay both fees at once. This has nothing to do with the concession fees. If you have never paid the beach front fee before you need to take a copy of your bank trust so Mario can figure the meters. They go back 4-5 years to collect the fee.
March 24th, 2008 at 7:12 am
If you buy at completed projects/resales your chances of fraud and financial loss is very low. The challenge is when Developers are building using deposit money only. Even if the North Beach title issue had not happened I think the slow down in the economy would have created the same problems on the under capitalized projects.
March 24th, 2008 at 8:04 pm
Gary D
I do believe you missed the point of the vast majority of the posts on this blog.
Pedro
March 24th, 2008 at 8:45 pm
ATTORNEY INFO
Ben Baker wrote:
Be aware that there is no Bar exam for attorneys in Mexico AND it is common for attorneys to represent both sides of a transaction. That is what I think is going on and it is perfectly legal there. We did the first fideocomiso in Penasco and had to use the head of the banks trust dept as our attorney.
March 25th, 2008 at 7:33 am
Pedro. I guess I did from your perspective but what I am reading is that North Beach is and has been a problem and so is all of Mexico. GaryD
March 25th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
Gary D
It is an unfortunate fact! I hope future investors looking for the “American Dream” south of the border do it fully informed of the situation.
Although I stand to loose financially, I fully intend to inform as many people as I can of the risks involved with purchasing property in Mexico (maybe I should limit my statement to Sonora). I don’t want the next guy to be told that they too have a social problem and not a legal one!
What a nightmare!
the fight continues
Pedro
March 26th, 2008 at 9:42 pm
pedro has hit the nail on the head. How do you force the Mexican government to enforce their own laws? Sadly, the local mexican thugs are always protected and any ‘bad’ news about foreigner’s investments being stolen are eliminated from the newspapers. Scare tactics, immigration harassment, paid for radio spots slamming the American or Canadian who try to legally appose the theft make it difficult for all of these stories to come out of the closet.
Mexico fears news stories in the US. Bours has anew project starting in San Carlos. Must sell more condos……….We need a reporter for a hot story here. We have all documents!
March 27th, 2008 at 9:10 pm
You guys are not the only people losing money because of shenanigans and snakes who live in Rocky Point. I bought a condo last year after talking with the owner of Seaside Reservations. I think his name was Steve Schoub who told me he would rent my condo and put $2,000 a month in my pocket. He went on to tell me how he’d be around forever in Rocky Point because he had so much invested like a childrens charity, college for employees, and other things. I beleivedhim and bought the condo and signed up for SR to rent it. Well I have never gotten anything close to $2,000 a month. I haven’t had any renters for months even though spring brake just finished. Now my condo has depreciated about $100,000 from what I paid for it and I cant make thepayments any longer. I was foolish and took a 2nd out on my Tucson home to pay for my condo expecting the rental money to make my payments. You guys are not the only losers in town. I hate this guy.
March 28th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
Can I be so bold as to ask about the Mexcian representation that has been used in the past and your current representation?
I am really curious as to how you feel about teh term “Fudiciary” and or ” Efficacy” when it comes to describing your past or present lawyers and or the state of legal practice or procedures in Mexico.
I can tell you some stories that would make the hair on your back cringe, even if you don’t have hair on your back it would still cringe.
For those of you that would rather not share your experience publicly but would like to share it with me anyway privately you can email me (with Howard’s permission of course) @ elgolfo1@gmail.com
Thanks
Pedro
March 29th, 2008 at 7:11 am
Never never never take equity from your home to buy a rental property whether it is in Mexico or the USA. I know 3 people who did the same as “I have lost also” but they did it in AZ and they not only lost the rental homes but they have also lost thier residence homes as well. It is a gamble to assume that property values will go up and you can get someone else to pay the morthgage. Take your money to Vegas and put it on Black or Red you have better odds of winning.
March 30th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
his name is spelled schwab. email me if you want his address and phone #. how do people like steve schwab sleep at night?
April 3rd, 2008 at 3:13 pm
Came across this article. And the beat goes on. How sad.
http://www.azstarnet.com/metro/232629
April 4th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
For those of you that have been following my story of El Golfo, we were just dealt a serious blow to our efforts to get our land back from the thugs that threw us off the land in the first place.
Just goes to show you anything is possible when you deal with a Mexican government. It’s a crap shoot to say the least.
Here we are spending hard earn cash to legally purchase property and the local thugs use Molotov cocktails and machetes and corrupt politicians to steal the land from unsuspecting Americans. Justice Mexican style!!!
The director of tourism spoke at the meeting on March 5 in Phoenix stating that the problem lies with the judicial branch not with the executive branch. I thought that was a pretty bold and stupid thing to say. but here we are, over $200,000 in costs associated with this legal (i apologize) “social problem” and do not get the land but are still the legal owners of the land. I guess only the Mexican government can explain this situation in better terms becasue this gringo is toooooo stupid to understand how it is OK to use violence to acquire property from Americans that are not interested in selling!!!
WOW!!
Unbelievable!!!
Pedro
April 5th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
Megaladon says:
March 30th 2008 @8:03.21 pm
I think that your reporting, Blog, and comments are great and should make any investor do their due diligences for any kind of investment here in Mexico regardlas of where it is. Arizona has been known for Real Restate Scams for 30 years and even now. People should deal with real estate agents that are with a renowned agency and not agents sitting at the site that promises everything to those that see and feel the dream. Go with those that live and work here in Puerto Penasco and know what is going on. Stay away from the onsite sales people that work only for that property. Yes, there are very good property sales people and we will let you know where.
April 6th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
Please keep in mind that the local government of Guaymas——supports-====and will not prosecute the antics of the Ordaz family against foreign investors! The City council member Jose Ordaz was over heard calling all foreigners-fucking gingos!
Trust the judicial system of Mexico?
Think again.
April 11th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
Well first of all I would like to thank this great website for letting everyone express thier opinions and horrible statements. My first question is how could anyone make such a huge investment with out being 100% percent sure about whats goin on?? This is the 20th century one must do the reserch to know exactly who you are dealing with not take anybodys word or documentation without knowing all the facts.
April 12th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
ProfNickD says:
2008-4-11 @ 8:04:58 pm
Even though the investors in North Beach likely did not perform due diligence on their part to secure their interests, it’s doubtful that their interests could have been secured even if they had because basic questions such as “Who owns North Beach?” simply cannot be answered.
I had been considering purchasing in Penasco after prices decrease further, given the current housing decline. After reading about the North Beach issue, I wouldn’t purchase any property in Mexico even for $1 per square foot.
April 12th, 2008 at 5:23 pm
HIRE A LICENSED REALTOR IN MEXICO
After years of discussion it is now a reality. You can get representation from a licensed real estate professional in Mexico. Mexican officials are watching closely as the state of Sonora works towards total accountability from its real estate professionals. Sonora’s push towards licensing is led by Sonora’s Governor Eduardo Bours Castelo, and overseen by Secretary of Economy of the State of Sonora, Internal Trade Department, Lic. Rodolfo Elias Calles Dingfelder.
About a year ago Mexico’s National Association of Realtors, called AMPI started requiring its members to be certified at the state level. This certification included criminal background checks, (For foreigners this means background checks in their country of origin, as well as Mexico.), fingerprinting, as well as continuing education classes to insure the highest level of trust and security.
Because of AMPI’s quest for accountability from its members, the now international association of realtors, NAR, includes AMPI members as equals. With this accreditation made official in Washington in October of 2006, AMPI members are allowed to call themselves Realtors, which is a protected brand that is not thrown around loosely.
The latest in a long series of events leading towards the actual licensing is a course sponsored by the state that is 109 hours of intense real estate studies. The topics included in this month long crash course were intended to provide actual and current technical and administrative skills to participants allowing them to improve their performance in Real Estate activities. So as, analyzing the legislation of both the federal and state judicial dispositions regarding Real Estate property, as well as talking over issues pertaining to taxation, city development, appraisals, trusts, sales strategies, and ethics in the real estate field. The instructors were all national leaders in their respective professions, and came from all over Mexico. This real estate diplomado course was held at Puerto Peñasco’s university Instituto Tecnologico Superior de Puerto Peñasco.
The first graduating class in Puerto Peñasco, Sonora finished with 26 students in attendance. It was an intense month of long days, but the content was extremely viable information that anyone calling themselves a real estate professional in Mexico should understand. Rocky Point currently has about 200 people practicing as real estate agents.
With licensing a reality, the security of future investments in Mexico will continue to grow exponentially. The resort communities have been discovered by investment pioneers and speculators for a number of years, and every year as the comfort level of ownership becomes more and more understood the number of property owners grows as well. However, for years there have been people without any accountability representing properties that have less than positive status. There are several projects in Rocky Point right now, some with good intentions that will probably have problems succeeding. It is the responsibility of Real Estate professional to educate would be buyers with full and integral disclosure of the securities that are in place to protect them, as well as any underlying facts that may surface. With the credentials available, and now law, any investor should make sure that the person asking for their money can show them a license.
It will be one of the responsibilities of Mexico’s National Association of Realtors, AMPI, to oversee and report violations to local and state officials regarding non licensed individuals involved in Real Estate transactions. The actual penalties; Fines, deportations, and other severe consequences will be levied by local authorities, AMPI has been asked to report directly to those officials.
Kent White
Realty Executives
AMPI President
April 12th, 2008 at 6:13 pm
Mr White,
I applaud the efforts of Gov Bours to try to get his house in order. I think that regulating the licensees is a good start, however, the problems associated with ownership in Mexico go WAY deeper than a piece of paper that says a person is qualified to practice real estate in the state of Sonora because they took a course or two.
Requiring FULL DISCLOSURE would be another positive step.
How would a salesperson fully “qualified” guarantee to the American investor that their title is a clean and valid one? How would the “Qualified” salespersom force the local, municipal and state authorities to enforce their own laws? How do you enforce the edicts handed down by local judges,State tribunals and the Mexican Supreme Court?
Let’s not jump for joy because the existence a piece of paper that demonstrates that a person is fully qualified to practice real estate in the State of Sonora!
The problems are much deeper in Sonora than just having “unqualified” people practicing real estate.
If we were to take the example of my real estate problems in Sonora, everybody would come up with the same conclusion that a “qualified” real estate person that sold us this piece of property would not and could not get the Sonoran government